Council tax

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Council tax

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tawny owl

Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 563
Location: Hampshire

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 05 4:51 pm Post subject: Council tax

So apparently anyone who is a homeowner and whose house is being revalued for council tax is going to be told to stay at home and wait to let in the inspector, even if they have to take time off to do so. The letters planned to send out also request the homeowner to ring up the inspector to give him/her directions. Furthermore, inspectors will have the right to walk into the house and take photgraphs. Any work done to improve the property will raise the tax, and possibly even having a nice view will do so.

So basically, they're asking for our cooperation to get more money off us, to the extent of taking time off work and letting a stranger wander around photographing our houses. And anyone who has tried to 'better themselves' (or at any rate their house) will be penalised, whereas presumably people who have sat on their a***s letting their houses go to rack and ruin and making their neighbourhood look horrid will pay less. Labour really is about dragging everyone down to the lowest level, isn't it?

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 05 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Council tax

tawny owl wrote:

Labour really is about dragging everyone down to the lowest level, isn't it?

Slightly simplistic view but they do seem to try don't they.

I've always thought the poll tax was much fairer, certainly fairer than this, if only the owner of the property had to collect it then there would have been no riots. If environmental impact could also be taken into account and coupled with the various exemptions and benefits it would seem ideal.

Is it true about the photos, I heard the storey but I would have thought any government will try and sneak changes in as quietly as possible (perhaps Gordon Brown could just put up employers NI but 50% so no one notices). I would assume photos will only be used if you object to their random valuation.

tawny owl

Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 563
Location: Hampshire

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 05 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: Council tax

Treacodactyl wrote:

Is it true about the photos,

Well, it was in the newspaper, so clearly it must be true!

Caplan

Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 90

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 05 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: Council tax

tawny owl wrote:

Treacodactyl wrote:

Is it true about the photos,

Well, it was in the newspaper, so clearly it must be true!

The Morning Star?

Cathryn

Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19856
Location: Ceredigion

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 05 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Council tax

Treacodactyl wrote:

Is it true about the photos, I heard the storey but I would have thought any government will try and sneak changes in as quietly as possible (perhaps Gordon Brown could just put up employers NI but 50% so no one notices).

It is sure to happen this weekend when the papers will be too full of the winners of the two song and dance shows to be able to fit anything less important in.

mark

Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 2191
Location: Leeds

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 05 10:14 am Post subject:

Quote:

So basically, they're asking for our cooperation to get more money off us,

isn't that whatthey do when they ask us to fill in a tax return?

Quote:

to the extent of taking time off work and letting a stranger wander around photographing our houses.

and how is that different than letting a tax inspector into your business, taking time off to deal with th paperwork and letting him to examine your books etc??

Quote:

And anyone who has tried to 'better themselves' (or at any rate their house) will be penalised, whereas presumably people who have sat on their a***s letting their houses go to rack and ruin and making their neighbourhood look horrid will pay less.

you have a point there! But the same applies with income tax! If you get a better more well payed job job you pay more. If you sit on your a**se and live off benefit you pay nothing in taxes!
I think also the cosmetic things that you mention and which "bring down a neighbouhood" - eg unpainted houses, gates off hinges, damaged fences, rubbish in garden, will not much affect the the valuation.
Normal good maintenance shouldn't affect things one way oer the other!
Whereas adding extra bedrooms - extensions etc may increase your valuation. Often adding conservatories, porches, garage extensions etc adds value to your own house's value but does nothing for the neighbourhood as it reduces green space, and light availability, removes trees and increases building density.

And why should a person who has a bought 4 bedroom house from a person who bought a three bed house cheaply ,and extended it to a 4 bed pay less tax than the person who bought a similar 4 bed house valued as a 4 bed in the same area ?

Quote:

Labour really is about dragging everyone down to the lowest level, isn't it?

I think your party political point does not folow from your previous points.
well the theory of a revaluation is to correct unfairnesses that have crept in over the years! And while ever the council tax system is in place all governments of all persuasions HAVE to revalue or have an out of date system. Any opposition to revaluing not linked to wanting an alternative system (eg local income tax) is just political posturing!

While I am not much in love with our present labour government - i if you have to have a property based tax (I favour local income tax myself) it is not "dragging people down to the lowest level" to be as accurate as you can about the the basis for that tax! To do anything ewlse is just unfair

tawny owl

Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 563
Location: Hampshire

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 05 11:32 am Post subject:

mark wrote:

to the extent of taking time off work and letting a stranger wander around photographing our houses.

and how is that different than letting a tax inspector into your business, taking time off to deal with th paperwork and letting him to examine your books etc??[/quote]

Agreed, but there aren't as many people affected by tax inspections as there will be by this. Plus, whenever I've had tax inspections, they've come in, gone through the books, and left me alone to work. Would you just let someone wander through your house at will?

mark wrote:

Normal good maintenance shouldn't affect things one way oer the other! Whereas adding extra bedrooms - extensions etc may increase your valuation. Often adding conservatories, porches, garage extensions etc adds value to your own house's value but does nothing for the neighbourhood as it reduces green space, and light availability, removes trees and increases building density.

The point is that it suposedly will be. As for your trees, light, etc., having a nice view will also be penalised - doesn't seem to encourage people to keep green spaces, does it?

Quote:

well the theory of a revaluation is to correct unfairnesses that have crept in over the years! And while ever the council tax system is in place all governments of all persuasions HAVE to revalue or have an out of date system. Any opposition to revaluing not linked to wanting an alternative system (eg local income tax) is just political posturing!

Agreed, but this isn't going to do anything for that, because it's continuing the unfairnesses that were inherent in the system from the beginning, and that will continue those unfairnesses and lead to constant revaluation (with the waste of public money that involves), namely the fact that it's based on the value of your house. This therefore unfairly penalises those living in higher-value areas, such as the south-east, even though providing the actual services the tax is supposed to pay for isn't that much more expensive in those areas (in fact, it could be argued that it's cheaper to provide them in a city than in some isolated villages). What they should have done at the beginning was to base it on square footage, so bigger houses = more tax, which seems pretty fair to me (with concessions for those with large farmhouses or such that are part of a business). And of course, they should have made sure at the beginning that the bands went up far enough that someone living in a nice, but not overly ostentatious, 4-bedroom house with a nice garden etc wasn't paying the same as Buckingham Palace!

jamsam

Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 2560
Location: erm....i dont know, its dark.

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 05 11:43 am Post subject:

we have been told recently that if our home stays as it is ( completly untouched since the 1980's) then the council tax will remain the same, if however the flat i live in is re-incorporated into the main house it will drive the council tax through the roof. to get round this the actual council tax office told my dad to keep a front door on the flat and a toilet/kitchein sink in there to call it a self conatined flat. in one hand they want more money but in the other they were telling us how to avoid paying it, i get the feeling that this means they have too been stung!!

mark

Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 2191
Location: Leeds

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 05 11:59 am Post subject:
interesting! I guess the changes to do with dividing the property into two or keeping as one will apply regardless of the re-valuation? mark

jamsam

Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 2560
Location: erm....i dont know, its dark.

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 05 12:01 pm Post subject:

mark wrote:

interesting!

I guess the changes to do with dividing the property into two or keeping as one will apply regardless of the re-valuation?

mark

im really unsure, i think the office felt that if it was one house it would be massive and therefore deserve more tax, regardless of the huge heating and maintenance bills, the lack of appropriate drainage, the damage from the road ( council property!) and the lovely idead someone had in 1979 to render the ouside of a georgian mansion with cement!

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