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Nicky cigreen
Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 9887 Location: Devon, uk
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dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46249 Location: yes
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 21 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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solar thermal water is a useful tool to reduce other inputs for hot water
it was built for wood fires, the walls and chimneys are the designed-in heat store, you have wood, it is a restore option if you adjust the ventilation, heat exchange, etc
to get a bit more modern, wood+solar water boost can give year round heating and water
retrofit heating in old properties is as much art and artisan as science and technology
both have useful approaches to the problem
one of the best retro rigs i have ever lived with was open fire, backboiler, hot water tank, 5 radiators and a pump + leccy immersion heater for summer
cosy house, lots of hot water, low costs, fairly low impact
if it had solar water the energy costs would have been even less
with modern kit, and local tweaking for your house, something along those lines might be worth looking into
massive walls they need to work for you rather than against you, a good asset or a huge problem depending on how well you use them |
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Nicky cigreen
Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 9887 Location: Devon, uk
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 21 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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dpack wrote: |
one of the best retro rigs i have ever lived with was open fire, backboiler, hot water tank, 5 radiators and a pump + leccy immersion heater for summer
cosy house, lots of hot water, low costs, fairly low impact
if it had solar water the energy costs would have been even less
with modern kit, and local tweaking for your house, something along those lines might be worth looking into |
I have this - my wood fired esse has a back boiler (well it's a side boiler) I have an immersion heater but never use it cos currently the system tops up the hot water in the thermal store via the gas boiler. It is cheaper to run gas than the immersion on a timer. I think I will need something to run the heating on days I don't light the wood fired esse - I'm getting older, my son is disabled, lets say I am ill or something, need to be able to heat the house without lugging logs around. We did have an extra coil put in the thermal store for potential solar water... but never got around to it. then i got busy with grief etc so it hasn't happened.
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massive walls they need to work for you rather than against you, a good asset or a huge problem depending on how well you use them |
yes, my house is like a cave and seems to maintain a cool temperature - a blessing in summer. But that cool ambient temp seems a lot worse in winter! and there are mysterious drafts despite the loft insulation and double glazing. Also damp. we have lots of it. |
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dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46249 Location: yes
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 21 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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We did have an extra coil put in the thermal store for potential solar water
that would be my first move
whatever else you do, warmer water in a tank is always a bonus and iirc pays for the kit and installation fairly quickly
most damp is penetrating water, leaks or bridging
have the house eyeballed for that, fix if needs be
some damp is condensation, have it eyeballed for that etc
hard stone with decent mortar is unlikely to wick much, but some replacement plaster will, as above get it eyeballed
dry is easier and uses a lot less energy to heat
drafts bad, ventilation good
very site specific
best options can be high or low tech
the place was built for open fires and plenty of airflow, changing that needs care and skill, done well it can be easy, cheap and cosy |
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Nicky cigreen
Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 9887 Location: Devon, uk
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dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46249 Location: yes
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Mistress Rose
Joined: 21 Jul 2011 Posts: 15999
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 21 7:42 am Post subject: |
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My feeling on wood burning is that it is better to keep it going if possible, rather than only occasional. Like you, at present, we are using ch in the evenings if it is cold, but in winter we keep the wood burner going the whole time. It has the advantage of drying things out, a warm chimney is more efficient than a cold one, and it keeps an air flow through the house solving any problems there.
Wood burning is recycling carbon dioxide, not creating it, and the particulates given off are far less (in spite of propaganda) than from a moderately busy road. For the first time yesterday, I saw an admission that brakes produce particulates, so even if we go all electric we will still get them from cars.
It sounds as if there could be penetrating damp from the raised ground, so would agree with Dpack on all of that. I also agree about solar water heating. Something we have been thinking about for a long time but other things have got in the way. |
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Nicky cigreen
Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 9887 Location: Devon, uk
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 21 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Mistress Rose wrote: |
My feeling on wood burning is that it is better to keep it going if possible, rather than only occasional. Like you, at present, we are using ch in the evenings if it is cold, but in winter we keep the wood burner going the whole time. It has the advantage of drying things out, a warm chimney is more efficient than a cold one, and it keeps an air flow through the house solving any problems there. |
yes I agree - in winter I tend to keep the esse going all the time - I cook on and in it, it keeps the kitchen cosy, which is where I live when I am indoors. But I need a back up boiler / alternative for those in between times - like now it's far too mild to want the fire on day and night, I just want to warm things up in the evening. Plus if I am out of action for any reason, we need something in place to keep a warm house without lighting fires. |
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gz
Joined: 23 Jan 2009 Posts: 8957 Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
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Treacodactyl Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 25795 Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
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jema Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 28239 Location: escaped from Swindon
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Mistress Rose
Joined: 21 Jul 2011 Posts: 15999
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 21 7:20 am Post subject: |
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Treacodantyl, i agree with you about wood, and Nicky, I understand your problem. We have been thinking for many years about a wood burning cooker, but we have been thinking too long, and now we are either side of 70, feel that it might be a bit much to deal with especially as we still have to get a flue dealt with professionally. I compromise by using the top of the wood burner for anything that takes a long time, like bolognaise sauce, cassoulet or melting wax for candles.
I think insulation without air movement is likely to cause many problems, so each house really needs to be improved in both directions, which is a major installation in many cases. |
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dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46249 Location: yes
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Slim
Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 6613 Location: New England (In the US of A)
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 21 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Much on your side of the pond needs insulating was an observation I've had for a long time. Difficult in old buildings.
My cousin was an engineer specializing in these systems. He had solar thermal evacuated tubes on his house and recommended against buying them because solar pv was getting so cheap it made more sense to just get more solar pv and an air to water heat pump for domestic hot water. This was nearly ten years ago, so I imagine it's only gone more in this direction (at least here). Also has the added benefit of grid power when your solar is low, and if net metered you can bank solar credits when your solar is high. Solar thermal needs a backup for cloudy stretches, and works best with a large super insulated storage tank.
Not sure about sizing a pv system and air or ground to water heat pump for heating demands.
If sticking with cordwood, there are very efficient combination boilers to be had. My aunt and uncle have a system put in by said cousin that they only load with wood twice a day in the coldest weather (and we get colder weather than you, and their house is over a hundred years old, so not well insulated). Another uncle (father of engineer) has an old wood boiler that he hooked up to a homemade heat exchange in an old milk bulk tank. A second heart exchange brings that heat up to his hot water radiators, using only convection!
Around here, an air to air heat pump is among the cheapest options for a retrofit, but we don't have many stone houses, so I don't know about compatibility.
Personally we going enough that I want the exercise, so we burn cordwood in our wood cookstove, and have an air to air heat pump as a supplement. We also have a small propane heater that we only use on the coldest nights. Maybe burned 10-20 gallons of propane? With our solar powering heat pump air heat and domestic hot water, that propane is only fossil fuel we heat with. (Just need to upgrade vehicles to electric!)
Last edited by Slim on Thu Oct 21, 21 11:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Slim
Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 6613 Location: New England (In the US of A)
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 21 11:16 am Post subject: |
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Mistress Rose wrote: |
Wood burning is recycling carbon dioxide, not creating it, and the particulates given off are far less (in spite of propaganda) than from a moderately busy road. For the first time yesterday, I saw an admission that brakes produce particulates, so even if we go all electric we will still get them from cars. |
MR, I agree about the benefits of wood, and realize you're concerned about your livelihood being impacted by air quality concerns, but we've talked about brake dust before... EVs, though heavier and therefore a higher potential for brake wear, need brake replacements less frequently than ICE vehicles because of their regenerative braking. |
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