HELP we need to round uo our sheep !!

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HELP we need to round uo our sheep !!
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Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 05 3:31 pm Post subject:

dougal wrote:

Next thing is that you need to have a corner or somesuch to work them towards. Its also good to have a 'reason' for them to go into the catching corner. Like the only source of water.

Make sure that corner is not dark (ie behind a hedge or a shed) and ensure that there is a clear view through the gates at the other side, sheep will be much harder to round up if they don't see an 'escape' route at the other side. If you can create a V-shape with a temporary fence so that as they go further in, the less space there is for them to get past you. Extend your 'reach' (or at least the impression of it) by carrying a stick, as they will sense such movement & be less likely to dash past you.

judith

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 05 11:10 am Post subject:
Have you caught them yet?

gil
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Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 18415

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 05 11:42 am Post subject:

What area of land are you talking about ?
In a smallish field (though depends on shape), if there are enough of you, and the sheep are calm to start with, you can walk them very gently towards the pen opening / field gate, using one person as the shepherd, one by the pen, and the rest as 'dogs'. If you can get one or two sheep to start moving in the right direction, the rest will tend to follow. Although sheep can be right awkward to handle.

What's an Arapawa sheep like ? Is it one of those typical antipodean Merino-looking ones ? Don't remember coming across that breed when I was down under. The name sounds as though it should be some small native breed.

kiwi

Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 73
Location: new zealand

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 05 8:25 pm Post subject:

Hi

Judith - no we haven't caught them yet !

we didn't even try yesterday as it was pouring down with a norwester thrown in.
Gil - in total we've got 38 acres and typically they have gone as far to the back of this that it is possible to go and with all the horses out there its a nightmare -

the breed of sheep is a feral breed so guess they will be OK for the time being but I don't want to miss out when 2 of them lamb, they are a chocolate brown colour and you don't have to shear them if you don't want to but I think we will get them shorn as the fleece is supposedly like a very fine merino, the ram has those really impressive curly horns.
We have resorted to putting an ad in the paper as I'm sure it will be impossible without a dog as there is so many places for them to run to and a couple of gates to open while keeping the horses out of the way, so watch this space!!
I keep saying I will post some piccies and did try once but couldn't do it so when we have them all safe and sound I'll have another go at it.
If you look at the NZ rarebreeds website ( www.rarebreeds.co.nz) there are some pics on there.
Gil - when were you over here and where did you visit?

gil
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Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 18415

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 05 8:45 pm Post subject:

Checked out the NZ rare breeds website - the Aparawas do look very fine indeed, especially the horned tups. But I bet they're a b***** to handle till you've got them used to it.

I was down under for 5 weeks in 1991 (NZ and Oz) visiting family and friends - went to the Christchurch area and the Banks Peninsula (would like to go back and explore more), and to Auckland and the top part of the North Island. My cousin was farming (Merinos) between ChCh and Banks, but has recently moved to near Warnambool in Victoria (Oz) where they've now got some Merino-type cross-breed. You just don't get that kind of sheep over here - the nearest you get are the heavy Downland breeds, like Southdown, Suffolk, Ryeland, etc. But check out the Rare Breeds Survival Trust for pix of our feral-ish and old breeds of sheep, like Soay, Manx Loughtan, Herdwick, Dorset Horn, Castlemilk Moorit, etc.

Was stunned by the size of Australian sheep (bit like their fruit and veg) - went to the Royal Melbourne Show, where the Border Leicesters were the size of donkeys. Most alarming. Really interesting to see what breeds had been migrated, and how they'd developed. White(-faced) Suffolks to avoid any dark wool in the clip, for instance. Poll Dorsets (for easier handling than the horned variety ?).....

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 05 9:48 pm Post subject:

gil wrote:

Was stunned by the size of Australian sheep (bit like their fruit and veg) - went to the Royal Melbourne Show, where the Border Leicesters were the size of donkeys.

BFL's are the size of donkeys too

, the ugliest numb-looking sheep I have ever seen

I'll stick to what I know (and love)

gil
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Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 18415

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 05 1:46 am Post subject:
I quite like BFLs myself. It's their bow noses and long legs. And they just look so weird. https://www.blueleicester.co.uk/ But of course sheep aren't bred for their profiles..... Hence the commercial popularity of Continental breeds which are legs of lamb with a few spare bits stuck on the front end

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 05 1:27 pm Post subject:

gil wrote:

But of course sheep aren't bred for their profiles..... Hence the commercial popularity of Continental breeds which are legs of lamb with a few spare bits stuck on the front end

Quite. People ask why I don't sell lamb to pubs/restaurants- when I perfect the six (hind) legged sheep, I might just start

Northern_Lad

Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 14210
Location: Somewhere

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 05 1:35 pm Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

I'll stick to what I know (and love)

So the rumours are true then.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 05 1:53 pm Post subject:

Northern_Lad wrote:

Rob R wrote:

I'll stick to what I know (and love)

So the rumours are true then.

Indeed, I was waiting for one of you lot to pick up on that

Leonie

Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 731
Location: West Sussex

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 05 3:54 pm Post subject:
Kiwi, do you not have any neighbours with a well trained sheep dog who would be willing to help?

kiwi

Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 73
Location: new zealand

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 05 9:32 am Post subject:

Hi

well we put an ad in the paper and a man came round this morning with 2 dogs and did a fabulous job of rounding the little darlings up,

unfortunately no sooner had he pulled off the drive than they were out again

- we've got 6 wire fence with 2 wires electric and it is all good tight wire as well god alone only knows how the ram managed to squeeze through

but we have decided they are obviously happier down the end and to leave well alone for the time being and just pop down to check on them each day - they are a semi feral breed so guess this could explain there desire to be free

kiwi

Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 73
Location: new zealand

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 05 9:09 pm Post subject:

Hi

quick update!! had a phone call from a man last night whose friend had told him about our plea for help!!
anyway to cut a long story short he has offered to look at our dog and see if he can train me to train him to do the job so we don't have to really on other people all the time which is a good idea I guess.

mind you being a kiwi bloke he'll probably have a fit when he finds out the dog lives indoors so that will be a black mark straight away

gil
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Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 18415

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 05 12:15 pm Post subject:

Might be worth observing your flock's natural movements through the day - where do they graze at various times; have they got a routine going; do they move around all together or split into smaller groups ?

How docile and easily worked with you need your sheep really depends on how often you wnat to round them up, and with what aim ? You've mentioned clipping (might be worth getting a solo shearer in to do this for you, but you'll need to catch them and bring them in); you also need to check their feet close up [though again, semi-feral probably less likely to suffer from foot problems], maybe dip or check for fly attack - dunno what conditions are like where you are, or whether you want to go organic. Also, are you planning to eat the lambs, expand your flock, or sell them as breeding stock ?

Maybe get them used to being worked with, and to the dog, even if it's only from one open field area to another. Perhaps according to where they'd be going anyway. Best times of day to do this with hill (and hence, perhaps, semi-feral) sheep are early morning and afternoon/dusk, which is when they tend to move of their own accord.

I take it they haven't shown signs of wanting to escape onto your neighbours' land ? (yet....)

My friend's son decided he wanted some sheep of his own to start a small breeding flock. He now has one Scottish Blackface ram lamb and three ewe lambs (orphans). All very cute until they were fully weaned. Then, led by the ram, they started escaping from the inbye paddock into other fields on the farm. Now they're going further, onto other folk's land, and his parents are a bit tired of phone calls asking them to come and collect his runaway lambs. I'm sure yours are much better behaved : Blackies are pretty notorious for this.

Are the ewes already in lamb ? If they are semi-feral, they will probably lamb easily. Lambing might be a good time to intensify handling, as ewes are more tractable and will follow if you can get hold of the lambs soon after birth.

If the ewes are already in lamb, get the ram caught, and penned up inbye for a couple of weeks, possibly in a shed, and feed him, so he becomes more amenable. The ram is usually the ringleader in any breakout. Or the 'boss' ewe. And then the rest follow (like sheep).

Whilst family groups are more 'natural', tups are often kept separate from ewes and lambs, unless you really don't have much ground. And they need the company of other tups, so if you go down this route, you might need to get him a pal of the same breed (which you could possily hire out at tupping time, as you don't need 2 tups for the number of ewes you've got).

Horned sheep : don't feed them wearing rigger boots or anything with loops in. They'll get their horns into the loops and trip you up to get at the feed. But the horns can be useful as handles to manoeuvre them around

Have you considered splitting your holding into smaller paddocks (perhaps starting from the far end) ? 4 paddocks of 9 acres (or whatever you decide, given how you might want to use the land longer-term) would be a lot easier. And a handling area / pen. See Dougal and Rob's useful earlier posts for tips.

Hope it goes well. Good luck with training your dog. Let us know how you get on.

kiwi

Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 73
Location: new zealand

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 05 11:10 pm Post subject:

Hi Gil

thks for the reply, funnily enough we were only talking last night about drawing up a proper plan of the land and mapping it out, our main problem is really the horses that lease the land as they have a tendency to knock things down(including fencing wires!)

and they do have the run of most of the land. I think we would have to hire in a fencing contracter to really sort it all out, luckily the boundary fence at the back is good and the right hand side is deer fenced the left hand side leaves a lot to be desired but there is a stream boundary with a steep drop before getting to the neighbours so they seem content to stay where they are at the moment.
at present we can't afford to take the horses off as its a small guaranteed income that really helps out, once we have it all planned will try and contain them to a definite area as they also have access to a big 3 bay hay barn which they seem intent on kicking at various times

(we could really benefit from using this ) so may get their owner to fix up a temporary fence to give us access to this.
Andy has just finished a fencing course so we have more of an idea now about what is required but its all a long haul !!
in answer to the question about the ewes - they should already be in lamb so we have invested in some sheep nuts and will keep approaching and gradually gain their trust (apparantly they are supposed to be easily caught and handled!!

we have also got 2 pet lambs now and we can walk them on a lead so might be worth wandering down with them as well.
well thks once again for the tips and I'll keep you posted.

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