New handle for my Bill- hook ?

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New handle for my Bill- hook ?

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Falstaff

Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 1014

Posted: Thu Dec 03, 15 10:49 pm Post subject: New handle for my Bill- hook ?

Clearly an antique - but like most vintage tools, it takes and holds an edge and is a joy to use.

However the handle is split right through and basically is in two halves, held together by the ferrules at either end.

I want to replace it and have a choice of some green hawthorne cut in about August - about 3" diameter - or a length of dead straight Holly which is about 18 months seasoned in my back garden. that is around 2 - 2.5" diameter at the "thick end" - [it's about 9' long in total.]

My problem is in accomodating the tang which is basically triangular looking side on - tapering from around 3/4 " or a little more to about 3/16 or a little less at the remote end, goes completely through the handle as they do and is rivetted through a washer at the end. !

I'm thinking drill a hole completely through the new "handle" and then try to fit the Tang - but the only true fit I can think of would entail heating the tang and inserting into the drill hole - allowing it to burn away the wood a little at a time and then re-heating etc etc - But I don't like the thought of getting the metal hot and probably softening it ! - But then as I said the tang has been rivetted through the washer - so that implies it must be reasonably soft in any case !

My thought is that if I can get a small diameter drill long enough (say 8" ) to go right through, I can use the holes as my centres and turn the handle after the tang has been accomodated .

Any advice would be very welcome please !

Last edited by Falstaff on Thu Dec 03, 15 10:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Thu Dec 03, 15 10:52 pm Post subject:
Don't tread on one, he's done nothing to you. There might come a day when he's treading on you.

Falstaff

Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 1014

Posted: Thu Dec 03, 15 11:03 pm Post subject:

Nick wrote:

Don't tread on one, he's done nothing to you. There might come a day when he's treading on you.

Sorry Nick - You've lost me mate !

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15464
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Thu Dec 03, 15 11:03 pm Post subject:
You can get heat sink putty stuff which may let you heat the tang without affecting the temper of the blade: try your local welding supplier. ETA: This kind of thing: https://www.frost.co.uk/cold-front-414ml.html Is dearer than I'd expected though.

Falstaff

Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 1014

Posted: Thu Dec 03, 15 11:17 pm Post subject:

Hairyloon wrote:

You can get heat sink putty stuff which may let you heat the tang without affecting the temper of the blade: try your local welding supplier.

ETA: This kind of thing: https://www.frost.co.uk/cold-front-414ml.html
Is dearer than I'd expected though.

Thanks HL - I'm wondering whether just clamping it tight in my big 6" vice would do the same job ?

Also whether heating enough to burn the wood could be achieved without going hot enough to lose the temper in the blade ?

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 43773
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Dec 03, 15 11:57 pm Post subject:

the vice might well work especially if you use two bits of sheet lead and a wet cloth in the jaws but you will still alter the temper of the tang which should be hard enough not to bend and soft enough not to break and soft at the end for riveting.
the tang is usually tempered along with the blade by skilled dipping in stages (as was probably done my the maker ,re tempering such a tool is tricky and i would not start learning on a favourite blade or heat any part of it unless it had been fire damaged )

alternatively a "stacked"handle with each "washer" holed and filed to fit if using a hard material such as horn,antler or wood . leather can be punched just under size and driven on(swell it with a drying oil after riveting the end washer then sand it to shape)

or a wood handle can be pre drilled and filled with milliput before driving the tang through and fixed with riviting the end of the tang over the end washer.

the latter is easy and very robust

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Fri Dec 04, 15 12:49 am Post subject:
Heating the tang won`t lose the temper in the blade,unless you leave it in the fire so long that you can see the heat traveling up the blade, that is how they were fitted.

Falstaff

Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 1014

Posted: Fri Dec 04, 15 1:08 am Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

Heating the tang won`t lose the temper in the blade,unless you leave it in the fire so long that you can see the heat traveling up the blade,
that is how they were fitted.

Thank you Ty - I was hoping you'd be along soon !

- That's it then - I'll do it that way I'll clamp it in the vice with the lead or probably copper to act as heat transfer systems and heat it a little at a time until the "burn" is ok - but not too fierce

(I'll try it with a big plumbers torch as I don't have a forge ! )

dpack - I have some of that epoxy somewhere - I was only looking at it the other day - I also have a "wire saw" which the "Army" was supposed to use in "survival situations" (basically rubbish if you want to cut anything in a hurry ! ) and I could saw the wood out and use a lesser portion of epoxy as "filler - that would be a sort of compromise - but I'd really like to do it proper - like ! Thanks for your idea there !

Now which type of wood ? - Is Mistress Rose out there ?

Edit - I also have seasoned oak (at least 7 years weathered heartwood ) and seasoned ash, sycamore and could probably dig out some well seasoned hawthorn - if I get "on my bike "

Edit 2 - Oh and some seasoned yew - About 18 months "in the log"

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Fri Dec 04, 15 7:38 am Post subject:

Falstaff wrote:

Nick wrote:

Don't tread on one, he's done nothing to you. There might come a day when he's treading on you.

Sorry Nick - You've lost me mate !

You've corrected your typo. You originally asked for ant advice.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16219

Posted: Fri Dec 04, 15 7:48 am Post subject:
Ash is best for tool handles, as it is resilient so deadens the shock of hitting anything. Hope it goes well.

Falstaff

Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 1014

Posted: Mon Dec 07, 15 7:26 pm Post subject:

Nick wrote:

Falstaff wrote:

Nick wrote:

Don't tread on one, he's done nothing to you. There might come a day when he's treading on you.

Sorry Nick - You've lost me mate !

You've corrected your typo. You originally asked for ant advice.

Oh yes - I see !

Falstaff

Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 1014

Posted: Mon Dec 07, 15 7:34 pm Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

Ash is best for tool handles, as it is resilient so deadens the shock of hitting anything. Hope it goes well.

Thank you Mistress Rose

- Been out today and found a piece of ash which should be ok. I think it came down in the summer of 2012 or 2013 (can't remember which but I've been walking past it for a few years now)

It's not enough diameter to quarter it and make handle from one of the quarters, but being between 3 & 4 inches diameter, it should lose the sapwood as I turn it down I think.

Trouble is now I don't have a fairly small drill long enough to go right through -

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6663
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Mon Dec 07, 15 7:51 pm Post subject:

Falstaff wrote:

(I'll try it with a big plumbers torch as I don't have a forge ! )

mapp gas instead of propane for higher temp?

Falstaff

Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 1014

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 15 12:03 am Post subject:

Slim wrote:

Falstaff wrote:

(I'll try it with a big plumbers torch as I don't have a forge ! )

mapp gas instead of propane for higher temp?

Thanks for the advice Slim

- I just realised I have a decent sized BBQ - and some briquettes left over from the summer - so perhaps I DO have a forge !

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16219

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 15 7:21 am Post subject:
If the ash is well seasoned, you might get away with it Falstaff, but there is a chance it might split. Quartered is far better as it is less likely to split as it fully seasons.

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