Wild, Natural, Boring?

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Wild, Natural, Boring?
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OtleyLad

Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 15 7:37 am Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

So what's the problem with nature reserves? Is this purely semantics?

We have the opposite problem here and work goes on to keep trees from encroaching due to a lack of management.

It was more about who decides (and by what process) which particular habitat and species mix will be chosen to survive.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 15 8:19 am Post subject:

Well the land managers and/or the legislators decided at present, in addition to the public, either through trusts or their buying habits. I know that isn't always perfect but it works as well as it can.

Personally I'd prefer it if everyone was forced to consume more products from well managed grazing & woodlands, but it's difficult enough getting people who care about the environment to do that, never mind everyone else.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 15 8:31 am Post subject:
Then all you'd have to do would be to define well managed. Suspect definitions may vary. Shareholders at Monsanto and you may disagree slightly.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 15 8:53 am Post subject:
Forcing generally bypasses consent.

OtleyLad

Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 15 9:13 am Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

Is there any kind of labelling/branding that informs the customer?

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 15 9:19 am Post subject:

OtleyLad wrote:

Rob R wrote:

Is there any kind of labelling/branding that informs the customer?

I'm guessing free range and organic would be the closest wide spread schemes? And they're pretty poor. As always, knowing your farmer is the answer, but not practical for most.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 15 9:25 am Post subject:

Nick wrote:

OtleyLad wrote:

Rob R wrote:

Is there any kind of labelling/branding that informs the customer?

I'm guessing free range and organic would be the closest wide spread schemes? And they're pretty poor. As always, knowing your farmer is the answer, but not practical for most.

You mean they can't be arsed. The biggest barrier to buying direct for the majority of people remains not being sufficiently bothered about it.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 15 9:25 am Post subject:

The problems are caused (IMHO) by people who see human activity as being somehow outside nature.
Most things done in the name of progress have been conducted by groups or individuals who see themselves apart from, not part of nature.
It's a Victorian, Judeo/Christian hangup that man has dominion over nature, well past its sell by date.
Whatever we do has an impact, usually detrimental.
So by accepting everything (including human activity) is a part of nature, which it is as we all live on the same planet. & acting positively to rectify some of the mistakes made previously by the greedy or ignorant, we can help rare & endangered species, & habitats survive & thrive through habitat management.
I'd prefer the whole environment to be nature friendly but it's not.
Nature reserves are close to being open air zoo exhibits but at the same time essential just as captive breeding programs are in zoos.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 15 9:44 am Post subject:

Tavascarow wrote:

The problems are caused (IMHO) by people who see human activity as being somehow outside nature.

Spot on. Living landscapes all the way.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 15 10:40 am Post subject:

OtleyLad wrote:

Rob R wrote:

Is there any kind of labelling/branding that informs the customer?

There is lots of labelling and branding, which is as diverse as the agricultural industry. That's the main issue really, branding that works involves having exactly the same thing in every outlet throughout the globe. Trying to fit sustainable agriculture into this business model is bound to fall short. That's why localism is so important, it doesn't rely upon labels and branding, more upon people and relationships, and it's naturally more difficult to deceive someone if they can come and visit you.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 15 11:36 am Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

Nick wrote:

OtleyLad wrote:

Rob R wrote:

Is there any kind of labelling/branding that informs the customer?

I'm guessing free range and organic would be the closest wide spread schemes? And they're pretty poor. As always, knowing your farmer is the answer, but not practical for most.

You mean they can't be arsed. The biggest barrier to buying direct for the majority of people remains not being sufficiently bothered about it.

No I don't. Most people live in cities, or away from farms. It's not practical to get to know the farmers. Farmers markets aren't great, and farm gates are a long way away. Buying over the Internet isn't knowing your supplier.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 15 12:05 pm Post subject:

Nick wrote:

Rob R wrote:

Nick wrote:

OtleyLad wrote:

Rob R wrote:

Is there any kind of labelling/branding that informs the customer?

I'm guessing free range and organic would be the closest wide spread schemes? And they're pretty poor. As always, knowing your farmer is the answer, but not practical for most.

You mean they can't be arsed. The biggest barrier to buying direct for the majority of people remains not being sufficiently bothered about it.

The internet is a mere communication tool, you don't have to use it, but you can, without much effort or cost.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 15 3:55 pm Post subject:
You can, but that doesn't really mean you know your supplier. If it does, I've seen pigs and cows in glorious green pasture looking happy and contented. Mostly on supermarket web sites.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 15 6:13 pm Post subject:
Like I say, it's a communication tool, only works if you use it to communicate.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15984

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 15 7:58 am Post subject:

If you go to a proper farmers market affiliated to Farma, either the producer, or someone that knows how the food was produced should be running the stall. That is one of the rules.

Branding is a bit dubious imo. If you are willing to pay to belong to a scheme, you get the brand. Some schemes are very hot on inspections, and these are likely to be the most expensive to join, so there is a good chance that you can get just as well produced things outside them.

The best way to find produce from well managed sources is to look around. It is easy to go into a supermarket and just buy things with pretty pictures attached, but the independent butcher or greengrocer may well be able to tell you exactly where the produce comes from and how they manage their farm.

As we sometimes get people coming down from London to buy at markets down here, about 60 miles away, but with good rail connections, all be it, about once a month, it can't be that difficult to find someone who supplies from well managed farms.

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